How to Hit a Six against Muslim Tactics

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Article Index How to Hit a Six against Muslim Tactics Page 2 Page 3 Page 4 Page 5 Page 1 of 5 Muslim apologists have been trying to undermine biblical truths tirelessly and pathetically for quite sometime. In their zeal they employ all kinds of questions that are basically fallacious. Prasanna answers six of those. Muslim apologists have been trying to undermine biblical truths tirelessly and pathetically for quite sometime. In their zeal they employ all kinds of questions that are basically fallacious. They seem to be willing to go down to any level of dishonesty if they figure out that it will help justify Mohammad and his deity. Here we can see some of the deceptive methods Muslim apologists devised against God’s truth, and how they can be countered logically and scripturally.  Fallacious Tactic #1 Muslim apologists tend to raise the following questions with Christians in order to prove that Jesus is not God. Their questioning goes like this… 1. Can God die? (Muslims assume Christians would say ‘no’) 2. Did Jesus die? (Muslims assume Christians would say ‘yes’) From the above assumptions they would love to conclude saying, ‘therefore Jesus is not God.’ This may work with unsuspecting or uninformed Christians. But when tried with someone who is well prepared or insightful enough to test the validity of the questions in the argument it simply doesn’t work for Muslim apologists who heavily depend on ignorance and deceptive tactics in persuading the Christians to believe the lies against Jesus’ deity. Let’s see how it can be tackled. If a Muslim or someone of that mentality comes to ask the question #1 the listener needs to get the clarification about the definition of ‘death’ first. The Christian should ask back for clarification: What do you mean by ‘death’? Cessation of existence or Separation of the physical body and soul/spirit? If the Muslim defines ‘death’ as ‘cessation of existence,’ which is unlikely unless he/she agrees with the so-called Jehovah’s Witnesses, then the answer to the first question is definitely ‘no.’ With this definition of ‘death’ the Christian can confidently say ‘no’ even to the question #2. The Bible never defines ‘death’ as cessation of existence. Instead, we see enough evidence in the Bible to the contrary (Lk.16-22-23; Rev.6:9-11). Furthermore, Jesus was in existence even after his ‘last breath’ and ‘giving up his spirit’ on the cross (Jn.2:19-21, 10:17-18; Lk.23:43; Eph.4:8-10; 1Pet.3:18-20). From here the Muslim can get nowhere. He/she cannot reach the point #3, which is his/her illogical conclusion. If the Muslim defines ‘death’ as ‘separation of physical body and soul/spirit,’ as Islamic theology teaches, then the question #1 turns out to be an irrelevant and illogical question. God in his eternal existence does not possess a physical body. Raising a question like ‘Can God die (be separated from his physical body)?’ would only prove that the questioner is either a fool or out of his/her mind (Of course, Muslim apologists fit into one of these two categories very well). It is like asking about a person who never married, ‘Can he stop beating his wife?’  Fallacious Tactic #2 Muslim apologists have come with the ‘ultimate question’ of their standard as a result of their insatiable tendency to quiz Christians about the belief in the deity of Christ. Here it is: Where did Jesus himself say ‘I am God’ in the Bible? (If he himself did not say that why do Christians believe that Jesus is God and worship him?). At the first sight the question might make sense to the reader. But if we analyze it carefully it becomes apparent that the question has been formed on shallow reasoning. One need not depend solely on a person’s own claim or disclaim or even silence to determine that person’s identity.  (1) Muslims believe that Jesus is… a Man a Prophet the Messiah (2) Christians believe that Jesus is… a Man a Prophet the Messiah the Son of God the Lord God All of them are true. However, none of them were directly claimed by Jesus. It is true that Jesus himself did not say ‘I am the Messiah’, ‘I am the Lord’ etc.  Muslims believe that Jesus is a ‘man,’ a ‘prophet,’ and the ‘Messiah’ not because Jesus himself claimed them, but because the Quran says so. In the same way, Christians believe that Jesus is a ‘man,’ a ‘prophet,’ the ‘Messiah,’ the ‘Son of God,’ the ‘Lord,’ and ‘God’ not because Jesus himself claimed them directly (he did that indirectly), but because the Bible says so. If the Muslim insists the Christian on answering the following questions: Do you believe that Jesus is God? If so, where in the Bible did Jesus himself say ‘I am God’? Christian should insist the Muslim on first answering these questions: Do you believe that Jesus is the Messiah? If so, where in the Quran did Jesus himself say ‘I am the Messiah’? If the Muslim cannot answer the question yet wants to know the answer to his/her question, he/she is only demonstrating to the world that he/she is a big hypocrite and cannot even think logically and consistently.  There is enough evidence in the Bible that enables us to safely infer that Jesus is God beyond any shadow of doubt. The evidence can broadly be divided into the following three categories: 1. Testimony of the prophets/apostles (Acts 20:28; Rom.9:4-5; Tit.2:13; Phil.2:5-7) 2. Jesus’ own indirect claims (by using God’s name: Jn.8:58-59; 18:3-13=Ex.3:14; by claiming equality with God: Jn.10:30-31; 14:9; by accepting worship: Matt.14:33, 15:25, 28:9,17; Lk.17:16; Jn.9:38; Heb.1:6; Rev.5:8-14, 7:9-12 cf.Matt.4:10; Acts 10:25-26; Rev.18:21, 19:10, 22:8-9) 3. Testimony of the Father (Heb.1:8) Fallacious Tactic #3 Muslim apologists employ inconsistent approaches to understand God. On one had they believe and assert that God is unknown or beyond our understanding and definition, and on the other hand they demand Christians to make God understandable to them. Muslims have hard time to comprehend the definition of ‘Trinity,’ which is the Biblical concept of God. As a result of this they blindly try to attack the concept of ‘Trinity’ without even knowing what they are trying to debunk. In this childish effort they can come up with endless questions regarding this doctrine of the Bible. One of the most frequent arguments Muslim apologists use against ‘Trinity’ is as follows: 1. Does God know everything? (answer is ‘yes’)2. Did Jesus say that he doesn’t know the hour of his coming? (answer is ‘yes’) Therefore, they conclude, that Jesus is not God. God knows everything not because he ‘came to know’ them. He knows everything because it is he who caused or predestined or allowed them to occur/exist. Regarding the hour of his coming, Jesus says, “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone” (Matt.24:36). 1. In the above Jesus’ statement there is a reference to three distinct categories of beings, namely, human beings, angels and God. 2. Jesus did not categorize the ‘Son’ as human being (‘no one knows’ includes all human beings), rather he distinguished the ‘Son’ from human beings by placing him in a different category other than human beings.   3. Jesus distinguished the ‘Son’ even from the category of the angels because the ‘Son’ is not even a part of the angels. 4. The ‘Son’ is a part of the ‘Godhead,’ however, within the Godhead the ‘Son’ is distinguished from the ‘Father.’ This is clearly maintained in Jesus’ statement. 5. In the above statement instead of using the generic term ‘God,’ which refers to both the Father and the Son, Jesus used the term ‘Father’ selectively in order to refer only to the first person of Godhead in this context. 6. The verb ‘to know’ means to receive information about something. With reference to God the verb ‘to know’ does not connote this same lexical meaning simply because God does not ‘come to know’ things. Either he knows things as the cause of their occurrence or as the one who ordains them for the future or as the one who permits them come to pass. 7. In the light of the above facts, the phrase ‘only the Father knows’ is tantamount to admit that only the first person of Godhead, i.e. The Father, has the prerogative to ordain the ‘hour,’ but not the Son. The difference between the ‘Son’ and the ‘Father’ is not in knowledge but in function. In short what Jesus is saying in the above statement is not that he cannot ‘come to know’ the hour, rather he is implying to his listeners that not he but the Father is the one who ‘decides’ or ‘causes’ it to occur.  This does not make Jesus less than God, but only different from the Father. Fallacious Tactic #4 Another Biblical doctrine that completely baffles Muslims is the ‘incarnation.’ Exposing their ignorance Muslim apologists ask questions like these: Can God pray to himself? (assumed answer is ‘no’) Did Jesus pray to God? (assumed answer is ‘yes’) Therefore, Jesus is not God. (Muslim apologist’s conclusion) Here Muslim apologist exposes two of his/her common traits, namely, hypocrisy and irrationality. Let’s see how these are playing out in this particular tactic. The first sura in the Quran, Fatiha, is a prayer to God. Muslims believe that the entire Quran is spoken by God. If that is true then the first prayer in Sura Fatiha is a prayer by God to God! Yet, Muslim apologists hypocritically ask Christians the first question. How to understand Jesus’ prayer to God? It is both logical as well as commonsensical to see Jesus praying to God. Jesus, the Son, is a part of the Godhead. He is God the Son, but not God the Father. In addition to this, Jesus had taken human form and nature as a part of his incarnation. Therefore, God the Son as human being is praying to God the Father.  When Muslim apologist fails to recognize these truths he/she only exposes his/her ignorance in this matter. If any Muslim asks the question, “Can God pray to himself?” Christian should respond to that by giving this counter question, “Yeah, that’s interesting. What do YOU think?” The Muslim will be more than happy to furnish the answer as ‘no’ to the question. At which point the Christian should immediately ask the Muslim, “if that is true, how come your God prayed to himself in the first sura of the Quran?” It would be very interesting and entertaining to watch and see how the Muslim tries to get out of this pit he/she himself/herself dug. Fallacious Tactic #5 In their zeal to prove Christians wrong in believing that God is ‘Trinity’ Muslim apologists use questions like this: Is God one or many? (assumed answer is ‘one’) Are the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit ‘one’ or ‘three’? (assumed answer is ‘three’) Therefore, Muslims love to conclude, Christians’ belief in ‘Trinity’ is wrong. Christians should respond to this kind of shallow reasoning cautiously. Christian can respond in the following way: Muslim: Is God one or many? Christian: Well, I want to say ‘one,’ but first let me know, what you exactly mean by one? If the Muslim can’t get it, say something like this… Christian: For example, I am one and you are one; Is that what you mean when you say God is one?  Muslim: (It is unlikely that Muslim agrees to this. In all probability he/she will try to prove to Christian that ‘God is one’ is incomparable to ‘man is one.’ By chance, if the Muslim says yes, which is unimaginable, Christian should help him/her to realize by that he/she is equating God to man!) Christian: Do you agree that God’s oneness and man’s oneness are different? Muslim: (must agree to this, willingly or unwillingly) Christian: If you agree to this fact then I can easily say that God is one. Muslim: Are the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit ‘one’ or ‘three’? Christian: One! Muslim: How can it be? It’s poor mathematics! Christian: No it is not. Please listen to this! I am one, you are one and my friend is also one. If we add these numbers we will get three. Likewise, in the case of God the Father is one, the Son is one and the Holy Spirit is one. However, if you add these numbers you still get one. This is simply because our ‘one’ is a mathematical unit, whereas God’s ‘one’ is infinitely different to our ‘one.’ God is infinite. If you add or subtract or multiply or divide an ‘infinity’ you still get ‘infinity.’ That’s what God is! If the Muslim cannot understand this leave him/her until he/she grows up enough to understand this reasoning. Fallacious Tactic #6 Muslims in general tend to ask very childish questions about Jesus being God’s Son without realizing the imbecility in their disbelief. Here is an example of that sort. Muslims ask Christians: Does God have a wife? (Christian’s answer is ‘no’) If God doesn’t have a wife how can you say that Jesus is God’s son? (implying the Biblical teaching “Jesus is God’s son” is wrong) It is both pathetic and tiring to hear the second question, either in the form of a question or in the form of a statement of disbelief, again and again from the lips of our Muslim friends. In this context Christians should ask Muslims the following questions: Can Allah have a wife? (Muslim’s answer is ‘no’) Is it possible for Allah to have a son without a wife? (yes/no) If the answer is ‘yes,’ then that’s all what Christians too believe. But if the answer is ‘no’ then Muslims should answer this question: If you say that Allah cannot have a son without a wife, why does Allah say in the Quran (39:4) that it is possible for him to have a son without a wife? It would be interesting to watch him/her trying to justify or clarify his/her ‘no.’  Thankfully, not all Muslims are foolish enough to ask questions like these. I have personally met Muslims who are wise, open, willing to and capable of engaging in meaningful dialogues in order to know the truth of God. Some of them have found it! God gave this promise, “Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you.”   Comments (48)  1  Written by Amina Yosuf, on 2009-06-02 23:13:37 1. if the connection between Qurán3.55 and the christian dominance was true,the entire muslim world today should have accepted chirstanity!!!why?? look at history-the world's greatest wars ,WW1&2 were started and raged by christians to gain world dominance.  2. islam is the only religion that makes it compulsory to believe in Jesus Christ!!  3.no where does Jesus Christ,as per the Bible(which again was not written or compiled in front of him), EXPLICITLY says : I am God or worship me.  4.even in Matthew 22: 41-46,Jesus Christ could have corrected them in clear speech as to who his 'father' is.  5.just because the christiandom comes up with some vague,indirect & hallucinatory interpretations to what they claim as Jesus's speech,does'nt justify so-called trinity.  6. What need can you fathom that can be attributed to God for creating such a confusing concept of Trinity to be able to capture the intellect of man.ie.1+1+1 is not=3?????    Men understand through plain logic,not through vague connotations.  2  Written by This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it , on 2009-07-09 03:54:35 It is baseless to comment until u people be honest in the field. Be honest u quote one verse quran 39:4 like this "it is possible for him to have a son without a wife? " but quran 39:4 is this"Had Allah willed to take son, He would have chosen anyone He please out of his ceation."    Understand the difference, where come "wife" and "without wife".  3  Missed the point Written by Re: Thahasil, on 2009-07-09 21:56:43 Thahasil- you seems to have missed the point by a mile which the author of this article is trying to make.     The author is trying to argue against the limited biological sense by which the Muslims always argue. If the word 'Son' can have more than one meaning as this quranic verse seems to imply, then the Quranic objection against the Christ as the Son of God is gone.    Now, for arguments sake, we grant that the author of this article misunderstoond he is only a mere human and not a prophet and of course not God.    But what about your so-called prophet and so-called god Allah who were dishonest when they misrepresented the Trinity?    Quran 5.116     YUSUFALI: And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.    PICKTHAL: And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? he saith: Be glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then Thou knewest it. Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Thy Mind. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower of Things Hidden?     SHAKIR: And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.       Where come Mary in the Trinity?    Where come allah in the Trinity?    Humans can err. But God???  4  Written by This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it , on 2009-08-03 14:01:35 Where did Allah say that He is discussing regarding trinity in this verse and trinity includes Mary. This scene is that of the Hereafter where Jesus was presented the condition and beliefs of people (on the name of Jesus) that they even did not mind to elevate Jesus and even Mary to the level of God besides God. Regarding Jesus you would be sure but what about Mary? Yes there are many who have such beliefs you just click this link you will get the answer.   http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/omnip.htm  And surely God knows every thing and he cannot err, but certainly, Mr. Prasanna can do and many a times intentionally; first wrong translation of Quran 39: 4 and then misinterpretation (rather mispresentation) of this verse and also of Quran 5:116. This is called as HYPOCRISY.    I think Mr. Prasanna got clean bold!  5  RE: To Amina Yosuf (don\'t quote Zakir Written by This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it , on 2009-09-17 02:22:08 Amina, stop yourself of being deceived by Zakir Naik. All of his false claims and discoveries have been answered.    look at history-the world's greatest wars ,WW1&2 were started and raged by christians to gain world dominance.    Show us proofs from the gospel where did Lord Jesus commanded his followers to Kill the ones who don’t accept HIM as Savior. In modern context during the world wars, show us from where the power hungry got influenced, did Jesus convinced them to kill?  Now coming back to the Islamic Caliphate of Turkey or the Ottoman Empire. Who also took part in that war. Even muslims form the great Indian sub continent took part in this war. Remember the Khilafat Movement of 1921 Indian Khilafatists who had been campaigning on behalf of Turkey and Khilafat.  I can show you many examples before 2009 and current events. Where Muslim clearly say Islam, muhammad and Quran has guided them to take up war. If innocent are killed in this war pray to allah to grant them paradise. Hope you are aware of the Islamic Janat.     2. islam is the only religion that makes it compulsory to believe in Jesus Christ!!     Also Baha’ism makes a compulsion to believe in Jesus Christ as one of the Prophets.  Ramakrishna mission believed that Jesus was an Incarnation of God.  Also the ISKCON believe that Jesus was one of the avatar of Krishna  Also the Tibetans Buddhist believes that Jesus is bodhisattva re incarnation of Buddha.  Even the Great Emperor Akbar according to his new Religion Din E ilahi believed Jesus as on the prophet.      3.no where does Jesus Christ,as per the Bible(which again was not written or compiled in front of him), EXPLICITLY says : I am God or worship me.    Please show us one verse from the Gospel Where did Jesus Christ said in unequivocal statement I AM not GOD and do not worship ME.  Also show us the Same from Muhammad’s inspirational Quran, Where did Jesus Christ said in unequivocal statement I am God or worship me or I AM not GOD and do not worship ME.       4.even in Matthew 22: 41-46,Jesus Christ could have corrected them in clear speech as to who his 'father' is.    There are people like Wahabbi Muslims even during the time of Lord Jesus Christ. Who did not appreciate thing explained in clear statement.   In order to understand this conversation between Jesus and the Pharisees, it is important to know that Many Jewish scholars in Jesus' day regarded Psalm 110 to be Messianic; this question is for them. So, to know the words of King David in Psalms 110:1 1 The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet." Jesus asks in verse Matthew 22:45, "If David then calls him Lord, how is he his son?" This sums up the scriptural dilemma faced by those Pharisees. How could the Messiah be the descendant of King David and be his "Lord" at the same time? The answer: It's a supernatural act of God fulfilled in Jesus himself. And that put a stop to the questions.      5.just because the christiandom comes up with some vague,indirect & hallucinatory interpretations to what they claim as Jesus's speech,does'nt justify so-called trinity.     Water + Ice + Vapour = H2O   We do not count God in numbers, like muslims ONE god, rather we believe in the oneness of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.    "he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, ‘This is my Son, whom I love and with him I am well pleased’" (Matt. 3:16-17). The Father’s voice sounded from above and affirmed the Sonship of Jesus, and the Holy Spirit descended on him and empowered him.    "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" ... (Matt 28:18-19).      6. What need can you fathom that can be attributed to God for creating such a confusing concept of Trinity to be able to capture the intellect of man.ie.1+1+1 is not=3?????     First, multiplication works better with integers:  1 x 1 x 1 = 1.    Second, the exponent comes out the same:  13 = 1    Third, how about an infinite number of sets of things? This works better:  Infinity + infinity + infinity = infinity.  God exists in three persons who share the same essence or being. this means is that God exists in the distinct and co-equal persons of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, indivisible      7. Men understand through plain logic,not through vague connotations.    To believe in God because it is logical or have faith as logic supports it. This act is itself illogical God is above all Logic. Till date we are not able to explain the Universe, which is still so mysterious then someone come to a conclusion about nature of God.  We Christians believe that God is knowable as far as he has revealed himself through Jesus Christ, the Scriptures, and the Holy Spirit who lives in us, and other avenues like the creation. However, we also believe that God in his pure essence is unknowable. No one has seen God in all of his splendor and glory. We humans down here on earth are limited by our five senses and our finite minds, which process the data taken in by our five senses and somehow reformulate them into ideas. For centuries philosophers have been debating each other over how the mind works. So how can the human mind figure out and calculate the pure nature of God? Given God’s infinite greatness and ultimate unknowability, and given the finiteness of our five senses and the limits of our minds, it stands to reason, therefore, that some ideas about God are perplexing and unsolvable.  6  Wonderful Written by This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it , on 2009-10-07 13:42:37 This website is useful and we are knowing the truth to the core.  GOD bless you all more.  Thank You once again.  7  Reply to Fabian Written by This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it , on 2009-10-31 15:36:45 1. Regarding World war and Christians:  In the World War I, Turkey supported Germany , but no other Muslim country, even Turkish strong hold Saudi Arabia did not support Turkey in this misadventure(leave aside Indian Muslims). Even though Turkey was a sideline supporting player of this world war game, but at the end, Turkey was the biggest loser, as the suffering is still echoing in the Middle-east in the form of Israel. Christendom got rid of their massive Jewish nuisance and imposed them on the Muslims. So, to say that Indian Muslims took part in this war is childish and need study of historical facts. As far as Khilafat is concerned, Muslims love this concept and Christians inspired by this concept, which can be seen in practical (nascent) form in the form of Europe, UN, Pope. After the World War, when turkey was being made in to pieces, Muslims started Khilafat movement, so that khilafat system can be reestablished from this remnant form and you know Gandhi Ji supported that movement, while Jinnah did not. So according to You, Our Mahatma Gandhi took part in that World War. Khilafat in absolute form (somewhat) was last seen during the time of Abdul Hamid II i.e. long before World war.  I agree with you that there are Muslims who claim their deed to be motivated by Quran & Sunnah. It is something similar to, Pope giving certificate of paradise to Crusaders. When Pope did this, that was never meant that Christ wanted that way. Then, how come actions of ordinary Muslims become so significant? Amazing!   Hope you are aware of Christian crusade.    2. Compulsion to believe in Jesus (pbuh)in Islam.  It is COMPULSORY TO BELIEVE BY EVERYBODY of particular religion is different from BELIEVED BY SOMEBODY or some sect.  For Muslims, if one doesn’t believe Jesus (pbuh) to be prophet of God and differentiate him out, he is not a Muslim QURAN:Ch2:136 - Say ye: "WE BELIEVE in GOD, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ishamel, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and JESUS, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ONE AND ANOTHER OF THEM: and to Him we have submitted."  So, it is a compulsion. But if in Ramakrishna mission, followers don’t believe, they will not be out of mission. Similarly, it is not at all a compulsion in Hinduism (ISKCON) or Buddhism (Tibetan). Amazingly majority of the followers even don’t know, leave aside believing In Jesus. There may be few with such beliefs, but that does not make it to be tenet of faith. You know there are certain Muslims who believe that Rama and Krishna might be prophets of God. But, this does not mean that this is a compulsory belief in Islam. Din e lahi of Akbar was tried as sect from Islam which doesn’t exist and Bahaism is a perverted sect of Shia Muslims. It is really great to see that even sect of Muslims make it compulsory to believe in Jesus (pbuh), leave aside the mainstream Muslims.  3. Regarding explicit statement asking where Jesus said, “I am God or worship me.”  Please show one verse from the bible where Judas the Iscariot said I AM not GOD and do not worship ME. OH sorry, but Judas was not son of God either. So, I change my question, Please show one verse from the bible where Jacob (Israel ) said I AM not GOD and do not worship ME. (Yes Israel was son of God see this verse of Exodus 4:22 –“ And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel [is] my son, [even] my firstborn”).  Not only that, it is condemned worshipping Jesus by himself in Bible see Matthew 15:9- “BUT IN VAIN THEY DO WORSHIP ME, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.” Brother, you need to read Bible properly with open eyes and read them as it reads before losing nerves.   Now regarding the word of God i.e. Quran. I think, brother did not read even the comments before on this page. It is clearly mentioned beautifully (Quran 5:116 ) that When God will ask Jesus in the hereafter regarding Jesus himself that did he ask to worship himself (of course along with his mother as some sects do), then he will refute. So, Jesus (pbuh) told in Quran in this verse that he told not to worship him.  Surely brother, God explained clearly his message in Bible and in Quran. Surely, God is not the author of confusion.  4. Regarding Matthew 22:41-46.   What brother is saying to be a “clear statement”, is actually one of the most confusing statement in the Bible. Anybody who tries to read and understand this will have to read again and again and still, will not be able to understand, unless you attribute this to supernatural act of God and leave your logic and sense aside. Why? Because Jesus is called as son of David in many many verses of Bible(starting from very first verse of New Testament)and at the same time he is supposed to be ”Lord” (i.e. second “Lord” of Psalm 110:1). And Jesus is asking question that then how come David calls him (Jesus i.e. son) as “Lord”? Then no further explanation given and only confusion which was tried to be solved by attributing it to supernatural act, because logic and sense fails to correlate both together. Actually Jesus made clear that this is not possible that I can be “Lord” of Psalm 110:1. Now, we will see this verse in detail and problems in it.    Matthew22:41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, 42Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, [The Son] of David. 43He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, 44The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool? 45If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?  [Similar message in other gospels also and this story is related to David in old testament i.e psalm 110:1, when David had vision of his lord in the spirit (not body ) and God, where God is promising his lord (some human authority, as explained later) for clearing his way before he goes in to the world in body form. ]    Actually this confusion is through editing and mistranslation. There are two main problems:  a) Second lord of Matthew22: 44 is written as Lord that means God (because of capital “L” in Lord).  b) Further explanation of this verse is deleted from the Bible.  Now we will see in detail and with clear logic and sense, the whole story will be REAL CLEAR, not left to supernatural act to understand this.  a. Second “lord” of Psalm 110:1 is mistranslated as “Lord “with capital L, means God. Actually lord word can be used for both God and others like human or angels with higher authority , but in Hebrew there is a difference. When indicated for God the word for lord is “adonai” and when for others it is written as “adoni”. And here in Psalm 110:1 it is written as “adoni” not “adonai”. So, it indicates some human or person of higher authority but never for God.  [The following 148 verses contain 166 uses of the word (adoni) and every one of them either refers to a human lord or an angel. None refers to God: Gen. 23:6, 11,15; 24:12(2x), 14, 18, 27(3x), 35, 36, 37, 39, 42, 44, 48(2x), 49, 65; 31:35; 33:8, 13, 14(2x), 15; 39:8; 42:10; 43:20; 44:5, 7, 18(2x), 19, 20, 22, 24; 47:18(2x), 25; Exod. 21:5; 32:22; Num. 11:28; 12:11; 32:25, 27; 36:2; Josh. 5:14; 10:1, 3; Judg. 1:5, 6, 7; 4:18; 6:13; Ruth 2:13; 1 Sam. 1:15, 26(2x); 22:12; 24:8; 25:24, 25(2x), 26(2x), 27, 28, 29, 31, 41; 26:17, 18,19; 29:8; 30:13, 15; 2 Sam. 1:10; 3:21; 9:11; 11:11; 13:32, 33; 14:9, 12, 15, 17(2x), 18,19(2x), 22; 15:15, 21(2x); 16:4, 9; 18:31, 32; 19:19(2x), 20, 26, 27, 30, 35, 37; 24:3, 21, 22; 1 Kings 1:13, 17, 18, 20(2x), 21,24, 27(2x), 31, 36, 37(2x); 2:38; 3:17, 26; 18:7, 10; 20:4; 2 Kings 2:19; 4:16, 28; 5:3, 18, 20, 22; 6:5, 12, 15, 26; 8:5, 12; 10:9; 18:23, 24, 27; 1 Chron. 21:3(2x), 23; 2 Chron. 2:14, 15; Isa. 36:8, 9, 12; Jer. 37:20; 38:9; Dan. 1:10; 10:16, 17(2x), 19; 12:8; Zech. 1:9; 4:4, 5, 13; 6:4.  The following 24 uses can be found under [l’adoni], “to my Lord.” While we in English separate the preposition from the noun or verb following, in Hebrew the preposition is attached directly to the word. Gen. 24:3,54,56; 32:5,6,19; 44:9,16,33; 1 Sam. 24:7; 25:27,28,30,31; 2 Sam. 4:8; 19:29; 1 Kings. 1:2; 18:13; 20:9; 1 Chron. 21:3; Ps. 110:1. All these refer to human lords, not God.  The following 6 references can be found under [v’adoni]: Gen. 18:12; Num. 36:2; 2 Sam. 11:11; 14:20; 19:28; 24:3.  The following reference can be found under [m_adoni]: Gen. 47:18.]     So, this is “lord” not “Lord” and this does not denote God at all but some human being of higher authority.  b. As we have seen that Jesus was son of David. Because, in the genealogy of Jesus from Abraham’s line though Isaac, David comes as prominent personality as his forefather. So when Pharisees asked regarding the Lord (second) of Psalm 110:1, whether Jesus Christ was the same lord? Then Christ disapproved this by saying if He was the lord then how will David call him lord because He (Christ ) is son of David (in genealogy). It is not appropriate that David (being father in genealogy ) will call him (son in genealogy) as lord. So Jesus actually told that he was not that “lord” of Psalm 110:1. And He might have explained further regarding that “lord” of Psalm 110:1, which missed in Gospels present now. We know well regarding Bible’s history of addition and deletion of verses and even books with many different versions (many of them, you can get even from a single shop). There is one supposed to be apocryphal Gospel which has been deleted from present day Bible called as Gospel of Barnabas. It has further explanation given about that “lord” of Psalm 110:1 and He was from line of Ishamel and not Isaac, so not the son of David i.e. can’t be Jesus. (Gospel of Barnabas: chapter 43 last paragraph. This gospel can be downloaded through link below)  http://barnabas.net/barnabas.doc   And there is no prize for guessing ,who could be this “lord” from line of Ishamel . Of course this denotes no other than Mohammad (pbuh). We Muslims don’t believe in any of gospels present now to be totally from God but there are verses from God in them, which is still preserved with wisdom, like removal of confusion and guidance. I quoted this verse because it seems to be more sensible and logic and explains everything clearly.   continued...  8  Reply to Fabian Written by This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it , on 2009-10-31 15:38:49 continued...  5. Regarding Justification of Trinity.  a) Water +Ice+ Vapour = H2O   It is better to write, Water (H2O) +Ice(H2O) + Vapour (H2O) = 3(H2O)  b) Yes, you do not count God in numbers and for you probably 3 (of trinity) is not a number. So you count like this 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7,…. Isn’t it? Amazing!   But God of Christendom counts himself as one, just like as that of Islam and Judaism.  Deutronomy 6:4- Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:  Mark 12:29- And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:  Isiah45:18- ……. : I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.    c) Matthew 3:16-17. So, Jesus was God because he was filled with holy spirit. Great logic!   So, what about others who were also filled with holy spirit.e.g  Barnabas- Acts 11:24-For he(Barnabas) was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost….  John the Baptist- Luke1:15-… and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.  And many others e.g. Acts 6:5; Luke 1:41 etc  d) Matthew 28:18-19. So, if somebody remembers three persons during an act, then these three persons become one. Great!    6. Regarding 1+1+1 is not=3????  a. So, 1x1x1=1  According to you, if we want to know the totality or sum we can multiply also. Great concept?  Suppose one person gives you Rupees one lakh on first visit, then one lakh on second visit, then one lakh on third visit. So when it comes to returning, you will give him one lakh, according to your method of totality, as 1x1x1=1. Great?  Or, suppose if he gives one lakh on first visit, then zero amount on second visit, then one lakh on third visit. So when it comes to returning, you will give him Zero. Because 1x0x1=0.   Poor fellow would have never imagined such supernatural mathematics.  Brother think twice before saying a thing, everything is not according to your intellect. There are certain rules, sense and logic.   b. you mean Father was an infinity, Jesus was an infinity and Holy Ghost was an infinity.   What do you mean by infinity?  According to Oxford dictionary: the attribute of being infinite and thing can be infinite in extent, amount or number or duration etc. So what do you mean by infinity here?  Infinite in size: Jesus was of size of normal human being accommodated on cross. So, Jesus not an infinity according to extent or size.  Infinite in number : The LORD our God [is] one LORD. So Father was not infinity according to numbers.  Infinite in knowledge: Jesus didn’t know everything (Mark13:32- But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, NEITHER THE SON, but the Father)  So, Jesus was not an infinity according to knowledge.  Infinite in time: Jesus had a beginning from Mary’s womb. So, Jesus was not infinity according to time.  So, what type of infinity is that? Supernatural act?  Suppose in whatever the supernatural way these were infinity, but you agree, (as you mentioned ) that they were three persons. Suppose you have infinite sand grains and infinite water droplets and infinite sugar grains; that means they all become one and lose their personality only because their attribute is infinite. Great logic! something supernatural?  Surely, God is not the author of confusion.    7. Regarding using vague connotation instead of plain logic.  Understanding of men falls in 3 categories:  1. Known things - by logic and sense e.g. different fields of science like elements, medicines etc.  2. Not yet known things – but there are chances that we can know them by our logic and senses (and of course by God’ wish) e.g. further advances of science etc.  3. Can never be known exactly – impossible to know them e.g. many incidents of ancient periods for which there is no proof to verify etc.  Most of the things of universe fall in first two categories. So, if we don’t know a thing that does not mean that we will never be able to know it (Catg.3) rather it is most of the times belongs to 2nd category i.e. we may know in future.    Now, regarding God:  This understanding belongs to 1st and 3rd categories.  1st category: Known thing about God which God explained to us in simple and logical way through His prophets(including Jesus pbuh) and scriptures e.g. Different attributes of God. 99 of them mentioned in Quran and most of them mentioned in other books e.g. God is one, He is most merciful, All-knowing etc. And He is perfect in all his attributes.  3rd category: All that is not mentioned by God regarding Himself through His prophets and scriptures. Or, What God told specifically about that we can never know e.g. God’s exact detail, His image etc.   We love to accept things of first category, while we strongly condemn things of third category being presented as those of first category or vice versa, using vague connotations. E.g. 1st category : “God is one” as mentioned in Bible and in All other major religious scriptures. But if somebody says He is three or ten or lakh and try to make a thing of 3rd category by vague connotations and illogical logic even though it is clearly a matter of 1st category, then we object. This is what has been tried by our brother to whom I am replying.   So, in short all those things which God has explained in clear and logical way, we should accept that. Please don’t create confusion and if somebody does so then use your intellect and prove them before accepting it illogically because this is what your Bible says:  Bible: I Thessalonians 5:21 - Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.  So if God has explained any thing plainly then it should be understood in that way. Because God is not the author of confusion.  Bible: I Corinthians 14:33 – For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.     So God is telling plainly in Bible; Book of Isiah Ch:45 verse 18  ……. : I [am] the LORD; and [there is] none else.  Similar message in Quran La ilaha illallah  There is one God (Allah), and none else .    You accept this, your half shahadah is done.  I pray Allah to guide you and me to the Truth.  9  Truth... Written by This email address is being protected from spam bots, you need Javascript enabled to view it , on 2009-12-15 22:59:26 And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished: for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.(" Holy Qur'an [17:81])     The Mission of Jesus Christ (pbuh) – to Fulfill the Law    Jesus (pbuh) never claimed divinity for himself. He clearly announced the nature of his mission. Jesus (pbuh) was sent by God to confirm the previous Judaic law. This is clearly evident in the following statements attributed to Jesus (pbuh) in the Gospel of Mathew:    "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.    "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven; but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."    "For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven."  [The Bible, Mathew 5:17-20]  10  Written by Adil, on 2009-12-24 22:53:39 Dear Muslim,    There is a world of difference between the mission of the Lord Jesus Christ and Muhammad. You can compare that yourself and find the ‘Truth’ that takes you to heaven and God.   The Mission of the Lord Jesus Christ:  I. To save the sinners    “And she will bear a Son; and you shall call His name Jesus, for it is He who will save His people from their sins.” (Matt.1:21)    “For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.” (Lk.19:10)    “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.” (Jn.10:11)    “The next day he (John) saw Jesus coming to him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” (Jn.1:29)    “For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony borne at the proper time.”(1Tim.2:5-6)    II. To save from the Law, which was brought by Moses, and give us a New Law—“A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.” (John 13:34)    “For not the hearers of the Law are righteous before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.” (Rom.2:13)     In order to be come righteous how much of the Law needs to be followed?    “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.” (Jam.2:10)    “Because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in God’s sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.” (Rom.3:20)    “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill.” (Matt.5:17)    “For Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness to everyone who believes.” (Rom.10:4)    III. To take us to the Father (God) in heaven:    “Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also…I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me.” John 14:1-6)    The self proclaimed prophet Mohammad’s mission:    To be a messenger, but not an advocate    “Or, thou have a house of gold or thou ascend up into heaven; and we will not believe in thy ascension until thou send down to us a Book that we can read.' Say, `Holy is my Lord! I am but a mortal sent as a Messenger.” (Sura 17:93)    “Those who set up other lords beside Him, GOD is the One in charge of them; you are not their advocate.” (Sura 42:6)    “Your Lord knows you best. According to His knowledge, He may shower you with mercy, or He may requite you. We did not send you to be their advocate.” (Sura 17:54)    Doesn’t even know what would happen to him or his followers (Muslims)    “Say, ‘I am not different from other messengers. I have no idea what will happen to me or to you. I only follow what is revealed to me. I am no more than a profound warner.’" (Sura 46:9)    Jesus warned of the so-called prophets like Muhammad, “Let them alone; they are blind guides of the blind. And if a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matt.15:14) Prev - Next >>